Did Frat Brothers Who Let Tim Die Continue to Study at P
- #2
Of course they were looking for extended jail time. That's what this AG does when you plea bargain. Turns out its no bargain at all.
- #4
The Piazza's are jointly some of the worst, vindictive parents I've witnessed. I've never heard either of them accept any culpability for their role in Tim's death. They raised, and had the greatest influence on, him.
Evelyn Piazza told the court, "This is hell. I'm still not on speaking terms with God."
Really? 
Your religious idiocy might have something to do with your son's lack of self-control. Now instead of blaming yourself, you're placing the onus on God?
Jim Piazza also said he was glad Burke pleaded guilty to hazing but was unsure of his sincerity. F'in hypocrite. He questions the sincerity of others but has never questioned himself as a father.
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- #5
Wasn't Tim Piazza, in one of the weekends leading up to the frat party, cited and fined for underage drinking? I would think that if that's the case, his parents already knew their son was drinking and potentially had an alcohol issue.
When my son was a new freshman in 2001 at PSU University Park, I sat him down and had a long talk about what to expect, including the dangers of overindulgence in alcohol. Apparently Tim's parents failed to do the same for their son.
- #6
Tim's parents are the only ones Tim's parents haven't blamed yet.
- #7
I'm just thankful none of the many friends I put on a couch (when I thought they were drunk) over the years at Penn State had an unknown internal injury from days before!!!!
- #8
It's a tragedy, however, the Piazza family should accept some responsibility here.
- #9
They haven't blamed Tim either.
- #10
The Piazza's are jointly some of the worst, vindictive parents I've witnessed. I've never heard either of them accept any culpability for their role in Tim's death. They raised, and had the greatest influence on, him.
Evelyn Piazza told the court, "This is hell. I'm still not on speaking terms with God."
Really?Jim Piazza also said he was glad Burke pleaded guilty to hazing but was unsure of his sincerity. F'in hypocrite. He questions the sincerity of others but has never questioned himself as a father.
God forbid any of us ever have to bury a child...I can't imagine there is a pain more profound. I get what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, but I also try to sympathize with the depth of torment that losing their child must bring to their daily existence. There is strong emotion on either side of that coin.
- #11
Agreed Player2B, awful all the way around
- #14
They've been venting 24/7 for over a year.
- #15
I understand both sides. I feel for both sides. I'll just say this... At the end of the day, we're all responsible for our own actions.
- #16
Bingo.
- #17
27 months probation, 3 months house arrest. Hundreds of hours of community service and thousands in fines.
Burke was one of the guys who gave Piazza alcohol.
Prosecutors were looking for 3 months in jail. https://wnep.com/2018/07/31/former-penn-state-frat-member-sentenced/
I hope that I am never faced with something as tragic as the loss of a child. I also hope that if I am, that I don't handle it the way these parents have chosen to.
- #18
Accepting responsibility does not preclude emotion. Yes, they're lashing out, and likely will for some time. There is no emotional playbook for going through what they are dealing with.
- #19
Very true, after all Tim Piazza knew he was going to be drinking a lot of alcohol that night (his text messages prove this). OTOH, when Tim was in trouble, his frat brothers, many who were perfectly sober choose to do nothing in part to keep out of trouble. If you are Tim's parents, I can understand being bitter, especially when those same people are not going to be severely punished. No winners here, maybe that is a good thing.
Hopefully others learn from this.
- #20
Very true, after all Tim Piazza knew he was going to be drinking a lot of alcohol that night (his text messages prove this). OTOH, when Tim was in trouble, his frat brothers, many who were perfectly sober choose to do nothing in part to keep out of trouble. If you are Tim's parents, I can understand being bitter, especially when those same people are not going to be severely punished. No winners here, maybe that is a good thing.
Hopefully others learn from this.
This. Tim chose to drink, his brothers chose not to help save his life out of fear for their own asses.
- #21
The thing that bothers me about the parents' reaction is that if Tim woke up with a bad hangover the next morning (vs. the obvious tragic result) he would be doing the exact same thing to pledges this year.
- #23
LOL at people blaming Tim Piazza or his parents. Wow.
There was a kid trying to urge them to call for medical help, and he was challenged by the other brothers. They most certainly deserve some jail time for this.
- #24
Agreed--my biggest issue with everyone involved is that no one seems willing to blame Tim for his own actions. Yes, a tragedy could have been prevent if the frat brothers took action but it could have also been prevented by the victim himself.
I won't pretend to understand how it feels to lose a child and I would never wish that on anyone but his parents have become very unlikeable IMO
- #25
LOL at people blaming Tim Piazza or his parents. Wow.
There was a kid trying to urge them to call for medical help, and he was challenged by the other brothers. They most certainly deserve some jail time for this.
I don't know if the parents deserve "blame" but the victim does. And, I disagree about this deserving jail time but to each their own
- #26
If you want things to change, you gotta send a message. Maybe some don't think anything needs to change, and the frat culture should be what it's always been.
As for Piazza sharing in the blame, he was hazed. Yes, he can say "F this, I'm done" to a room full of his supposed new friends, but that's pretty tough to do. But there's a duty of care and human decency after he fell that these clowns clearly didn't meet. It's criminal.
But yeah, to each their own. The courts will sort that out.
- #27
If you want things to change, you gotta send a message. Maybe some don't think anything needs to change, and the frat culture should be what it's always been.
As for Piazza sharing in the blame, he was hazed. Yes, he can say "F this, I'm done" to a room full of his supposed new friends, but that's pretty tough to do. But there's a duty of care and human decency after he fell that these clowns clearly didn't meet. It's criminal.
But yeah, to each their own. The courts will sort that out.
Tim had multiple avenues and choices to make a different decision. He didn't.
The "brothers" also had multiple avenues and choices to make a different decision. They didn't.
The courts will sort it out, but portraying the victim as an innocent bystander is ridiculous.
- #28
If you want things to change, you gotta send a message. Maybe some don't think anything needs to change, and the frat culture should be what it's always been.
As for Piazza sharing in the blame, he was hazed. Yes, he can say "F this, I'm done" to a room full of his supposed new friends, but that's pretty tough to do. But there's a duty of care and human decency after he fell that these clowns clearly didn't meet. It's criminal.
But yeah, to each their own. The courts will sort that out.
I'm not defending the "frat culture" by any means but I also believe the primary person responsible is the one that died. When one signs up to join a frat they know everything that comes with it. I didn't join a frat because I had no interest in participating in these things...plus, let's be real, you don't need a frat to make friends in college. I still blame the kid more than his alleged buddies. I just don't see how jail time helps anyone in this situation. But that's merely an opinion. No right or wrong here. Just perspective.
- #29
They've said that there was no way Tim would do that, he was different from all the friends he chose to purchase by joining that frat. That's where they are coming from.
- #30
If you want things to change, you gotta send a message. Maybe some don't think anything needs to change, and the frat culture should be what it's always been.
As for Piazza sharing in the blame, he was hazed. Yes, he can say "F this, I'm done" to a room full of his supposed new friends, but that's pretty tough to do. But there's a duty of care and human decency after he fell that these clowns clearly didn't meet. It's criminal.
But yeah, to each their own. The courts will sort that out.
He wasn't really "hazed" in the traditional sense. Yeah, there was an event where pledges were "forced" to drink, but he didn't die of alcohol poisoning. He fell down steps--probably but not necessarily due to some level of intoxication. This might or might not have happened if there was no "forced" drinking, and could even have happened if he wasn't drinking. Later, he fell down steps again, which nobody saw happen. I doubt very much that anyone interfered with medical assistance having perfect knowledge of what had occurred and that he was potentially fatally injured.
- #31
Which means they simply didn't know their kid....right?
- #32
Not sure. But that's quite the stretch from everything we know about piazza. The parents never bring up that he got an underage for being wasted in public a month before his hazing incident. Him being a binge drinker anyways doesn't fit their narrative and scorched earth attack on everyone else.
- #33
Right--and I don't buy their narrative. Doesn't mean their loss is tragic or they aren't justified in how they feel but their version of who he is doesn't seem like anyone else's version
- #34
Were any of your friends taking prescription medication and then drinking on top of it without telling anyone? I doubt it.
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- #36
And if the kid already has one underage drinking arrest, you don't let him stay in a frat if you're a parent.
- #37
You can't blame the Piazza's for their own child's bad decisions. Just ask them, they cannot be blamed. It was everyone else's fault.
- #38
Here's the larger point as I see it.
1. Young adults, especially young males, are basically crazy and will do crazy things.
2. It's inevitable that when large numbers of people do crazy things a small percentage of them will have horrible outcomes.
We can (and we should) try to lessen the number of horrible outcomes but no matter what we'll still have some.
It's basically a lottery except the prize is bad. When I was young I was fairly sane as young people go but I still did crazy things that could have had a bad outcome if a few variables were a little different. I suspect that's true of most people.
Well-stated. May I also add that parents better send their children to school as prepared and educated as possible about alcohol. And if that includes permissiveness while in high school, so be it.
- #39
I don't pretend nor do I ever want to understand how the parents feel. It is my opinion however, that sending other people's children to prison will not ease their pain.
- #40
How jail "helps" anyone? Jail does not help the jailed except by accident and on occasion. Jail as "rehab" is a cringe inducing notion and a cruel hoax.
One need only look at sentencing disparities by race and income to see that the people who run things have known this for a long time.
Source: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/ryan-burke-frat-brother-of-tim-piazza-sentenced.213162/